Let’s say a woman goes in for an abortion.. The abortion is botched, and the baby is born alive. With the assistance of medical technology, the baby has a very, very good chance of surviving and being more than a vegetable depending on machines to live.
What happens to the baby?
This is where I may be considered politically incorrect, anti-woman, yadda yadda yadda. See, my reasoning is like this: if the fetus comes out alive and has a good chance at survival, it is no longer a fetus. It is a baby, and it has been born. And because it has been born, is a baby and is very much alive, it is entitled to medical care. To withhold medical care and allow it to die is nothing short of murder, and everyone involved – mother, doctor, nurses, etc. – should be held accountable for that.
It would be at this point that the baby would receive medical care, and the mother would be given plenty of time and counseling to decide what to do – leave the baby in the care and custody of the hospital, no strings attached, or decide to keep the baby.
Your thoughts?
I agree. If the child is viable and living then this is no longer an abortion, it is infanticide. I personally believe that the line of “life” is drawn somewhere around fetus viability outside the womb. If it can live outside the mother, then the fetus is a baby. Before that I am pro-choice.
Note, unless in such cases that the mother’s life is endangered by the fetus and the fetus cannot be saved without sacrifice of the mother.
I agree with you and Sara. As soon as the baby can live outside the womb, abortion should be forbidden.
What bothers me is actually that people wait so long to get an abortion. Why? It doesn’t take 5 months to realize you’re pregnant (ok sometimes it does, but on very rare and special occasions). It is stupidity, and stupidity is not allowed to kill a baby who is able to breathe on his own, and already have a brain and all the body parts necessary to his life.
I completely agree. Joe has a cousin that waited long enough to find out she was having a boy before having an abortion. Then she just decided she didn’t want another baby. She had known the whole time that she was pregnant, there was no reason to wait.
If I had my way, abortions would only be performed to save the life of the mother. Too many people use abortion as birth control. Even if a person is using birth control and winds up pregnant anyway, I still think it’s unacceptable. In my opinion a person shouldn’t have sex until they’re ready for a baby. In the case of not having the money to provide the proper care, there is adoption. Aborting a baby when there are so many women that want children but can’t have them is selfish in my mind.
I know that my views aren’t exactly popular, but they are what they are
Well chances are if someone is having an abortion that late in their pregnancy it is either to preserve the health of the woman or because the fetus is not viable in the first place. So, it would follow that they’d (doctor and mother) probably want to give the baby a chance to live – if they were born from a botched abortion and were viable.
In the case that the baby is not wanted, once it is out of the womb, detached from the mother, and deemed viable, it is entitled to medical care (as far as I know).
But then, the story you’re no doubt thinking of (Gianna Jessen) happened in Italy, and I have no idea what their abortion laws are now.. much less back when this particular abortion occurred.
“Too many people use abortion as birth control.”
Abortion *is* birth control.
I knew this couple a while ago. She got pregnant 2 times in less than 6 months. She had an abortion both times. The father wanted the baby but she did not. They were both healthy people – I feel sad for the life that wasn’t to be. Oh, I could play it up and say that there was some other reason the baby wasn’t born – but thats not the case. It was not wanted and that’s what sucks most of all. IMO I think a baby becomes a baby once the heart and the brain are formed and is thus alive.
I think to deny a child medical care once outside the womb should be considered murder. What should have happened, is the baby got medical care and placed in a stable enviroment.
I agree with Leesha. I AM Pro choice but I believe abortions should only be performed IF the mothers life is in danger. Its so sad to read about women who found out they were having another boy and then decided to abort because they wanted a girl. I have to admit, when I was a teenager and got pregnant with my son. I kept saying I did not want a boy. But once I saw him, I fell in love. LIttle boys are wonderful. IMO they’re easier than girls. I NEVER would have aborted if I knew I was having a boy back then. I just cant understand how anyone could do that.
Oh nevermind, Gianna Jessen WAS the one in the states.. it was another case in Italy I am thinking of, perhaps. Gotta love early mornings.
If an abortion is done that late, and the baby is alive, then the baby should live. It’s considered a murder if he/she doesn’t after being born. It’s like someone giving birth to a baby and then the doctor stabbing it to death or poisoning its bottle. I also don’t think that the mother should be entitled to the baby at this point. Adoption would suit the small child much better. The reason the mother got the abortion in the first place is that she didn’t want the baby. She shouldn’t be able to change her mind after that. That’s a hell of a big decision.
If it comes out alive, then it’s not considered a fetus. In many states, once the baby has taken a breath it’s considered a live person. So I don’t really see what you’re trying to say? I don’t think any doctor would ever withhold medical care because the mother tried to abort. It just doesn’t work like that. Partial birth abortions are illegal (in the US, at least) and killing it if it were legally alive (ie, born) WOULD be murder under US law.
Now, if you’re trying to say that abortions shouldn’t happen if the child is developed enough in the womb to survive outside the womb…well, I would agree unless giving birth would kill the mother and the mother, for example, already had children. Then I think risking her life with the possibility of abandoning her other children would be irresponsible.
Caitlin said: “I also don’t think that the mother should be entitled to the baby at this point. … The reason the mother got the abortion in the first place is that she didn’t want the baby.”
This is certainly not always the case, especially in late term abortions.
Abortion is stupid. I really hate to see that. The mother should be jailed. I hate it when babies are thrown or cast away. It’s sick. If they don’t want them in the first place, why did they do it? If the baby’s born, then it should be adopted, because the mother will not care about it, unless its the dad’s decision to drop the baby, but then it’ll be a very complicated scenario :S
Ok, I’m going to ignore the comment from Chien Yee “Abortion is stupid” and the mother should be jailed bit.. pffth.
I agree if the BABY has been born alive, the mother should definitely be given some form of counseling. I myself have never given birth, nor have I even been pregnant (unable to become pregnant.. and years and years of unprotected sex with my husband proves that at this point)..but like I was saying.. I may not know what it feels like to be “with child” or ever been in a situation where I had to choose whether a baby is something I want in my life..but I’ve heard through friends and relatives and even witnessed the change in emotion myself, and know that a baby changes many things.
Like you said, at that point the it is no longer a fetus, it is a baby. The mother, may at that point, see things differently and counseling may help her deal with everything and essentially help with whatever decision needs to be made!
If the mother, after this counseling and what not, decides she’s standing by her decision.. I think adoption would be a good decision.
Leesha | 04.25.07 at 7:40am | link to comment
I completely agree. Joe has a cousin that waited long enough to find out she was having a boy before having an abortion. Then she just decided she didn’t want another baby. She had known the whole time that she was pregnant, there was no reason to wait.
If I had my way, abortions would only be performed to save the life of the mother. Too many people use abortion as birth control. Even if a person is using birth control and winds up pregnant anyway, I still think it’s unacceptable. In my opinion a person shouldn’t have sex until they’re ready for a baby. In the case of not having the money to provide the proper care, there is adoption. Aborting a baby when there are so many women that want children but can’t have them is selfish in my mind.
I know that my views aren’t exactly popular, but they are what they are
That just broke my heart to hear that story and I must say that I agree 100% with your views and I’m probably a bit more harsh in my thinking then you are. I’m happy to see that someone said what I feel because I haven’t been able to get this out without going on 40 rambles about my life experiences!
Beyond that I think it was Ally that said Abortion is birth control. Abortion wasn’t *invented* as a medical proceedure for birth control purposes. Abortion is intended to save the lives of mothers and that is that. Someone, somewhere saw that they could make good money over something that mothers had been doing for decades in the privacy of their own homes or back ally’s.
Someone took a logical medical proceedure and said well women don’t want their kids and they can do it the dirty way of sticking a coat hanger up their twat and scraping the fetus from the uterus or we can cast doubt and years of debate onto this wonderful proceedure that has saved the lives of mothers when a fetus was dead and the mother was in distress. Technology is a great thing. Once upon a time women would have died for reasons that an abortion can now fix. Abortion is not intended to be the nasty thing that people have decided to use it for.
I’m not sure what world you people live in that think if an abortion is performed that late in the pregnancy that something had to be wrong in the first place, BUT I live in Indiana. My former best friend had an abortion a few years ago and even though I’m strongly against it I was there for her. It was no big deal for us to look up the clinics on the net and view the different procedures. A second term abortion at a clinic for a lady who just wants to abort is not unheard of. Could that baby survive on it’s own? Probably more times than anyone wants to act like, yes.
A relative of mine just gave birth early and the baby was comparable to these 2nd term abortions. The baby not only survived but has not one health problem. It’s my opinion that this crosses the line when you are that far along. I don’t agree with abortion in the first place, but when you are far enough to know the sex, etc then how oh how can you live with yourself? It’s like murder to me.
Teresa | 04.25.07 at 11:04am | link to comment
Ok, I’m going to ignore the comment from Chien Yee “Abortion is stupid†and the mother should be jailed bit.. pffth.
I agree if the BABY has been born alive, the mother should definitely be given some form of counseling. I myself have never given birth, nor have I even been pregnant (unable to become pregnant.. and years and years of unprotected sex with my husband proves that at this point)..but like I was saying.. I may not know what it feels like to be “with child†or ever been in a situation where I had to choose whether a baby is something I want in my life..but I’ve heard through friends and relatives and even witnessed the change in emotion myself, and know that a baby changes many things.
Like you said, at that point the it is no longer a fetus, it is a baby. The mother, may at that point, see things differently and counseling may help her deal with everything and essentially help with whatever decision needs to be made!
If the mother, after this counseling and what not, decides she’s standing by her decision.. I think adoption would be a good decision.
The counseling process for abortions needs to be way more in depth in my opinion. You know I’m in your same boat, not able to be pregnant and some might think I have no right to judge this because of that. HOWEVER, I am so they can just ignore me if they want. It’s not any different from male politicians having a say in what women do with their bodies.
A 15-60 minute counseling session with a nurse from the clinic that wants your money is not enough to help you make a decision. They don’t tell you that the machine sounds a lot like the sweeper you use every day so if you are on the fence over this and think you might be sad for a week or two then you might not want to go through with it because every time you sweep the living room you are going to be reminded of it.
It’s not like me getting a crappy tattoo that I regret and then forgetting it’s on my hip because I never pay two ounces of attention to it. My friend went into a tailspin every time someone used the sweeper because it literally sounded like the machine. She’s not the only one I’ve known who has done this.
They also don’t tell you how hard it is when you hit the point where they are saying Section A out and Section B out and you realize they are talking about the head of the baby that was in you.
I think they need to have a couple weeks of counseling and be told all the options. I think much like I’ve heard Planned Parenthood does things, but I don’t know exactly how they do it. I’ve heard they will tell you the options of abortion, adoption, and keeping the child and what type of services you can get to help you get on your feet. That’s what people need.
Ranee, I completely agree with you! One of my best friends had an abortion. She was 15 years old at the time, with a very abusive boyfriend.. She asked my opinion on “abortion” when she found out she was pregnant. Back then, I was very much anti-abortion. I’d never really thought much about the whole thing and admittedly was very ignorant about the whole thing. When she told me that she’d been considering an abortion, I objected but told her that was her decision. I asked if she’d planned to talk to anyone and she said the clinic she was going to use had a counselor. When the abortion was said and done, the “counseling” was no more than 20 minutes and really didn’t offer her any counseling after the fact. I think that’s something that should be offered because even like with giving birth, your emotions can change drastically!
I agree with Kayleigh, I went to comment on this a few times but was a little confused considering I doesn’t seem logical for the baby to actually be born, yet not get medical attention just because the mother didn’t want it. I’m not quite sure what would happen in that situation, but since everyone seems to be discussing abortion… I don’t think there is anything wrong with it depending on the situation. I don’t think it’s right for a woman to have repeat abortions. As someone mentioned earlier it is in fact a form of birth control, but it should not be abused. People should not be careless and use abortion as a way of fixing mistakes that have already made in the past.
Someone also mentioned that you shouldn’t have sex if you are not ready for a baby, and while this seems reasonable when you are say, a young teenager, but I disagree in general. I am going to be 21 in July and I see tons of people my age having children and that is fine. I am happy to see people give back to the world, but that is not something I am willing to take on or something I even want to think about at this point in my life. It is ridiculous to think that I should not have sex with the man I love because I am not ready to have a child. Sex with someone you love is more than that, regardless of what it is intended for.
How funny that we live in a world where ANY ‘medical procedure’ can be classified as ‘botched’ if someone -survives- the damn thing. ‘OMG! The baby lived! We screwed up so bad!’
Let me first start by saying to Stephanie that I agree with not wanting to tell someone else what to do.I mean it’s why we live in America right? But there’s a flip side to that. For me personally, if you are lucky enough to have created a life then you should nurture it and bring it into this world because that is what god intended. Really, for me there is no in between. I long had this conversation with my mother when I was a teen because abortion was a heated topic at the time. Keep in mind that I’m a ton older than most of you. I graduated high school in 1994 and we had massive school projects on abortion in sociology and health class.
I can honestly say that if I were to have been raped I still would not have had an abortion. But that is me. I believe that children are innocent and by me aborting that child I would not be making anything better or right in the situation. I however, would not want to tell another woman that she had to look at a child every day that was a result of a violent rape. My perfect solution would be for her to give the child up for adoption because I truly think that is the UNSELFISH thing to do.
Booger | 04.25.07 at 2:36pm | link to comment
I agree with Kayleigh, I went to comment on this a few times but was a little confused considering I doesn’t seem logical for the baby to actually be born, yet not get medical attention just because the mother didn’t want it. I’m not quite sure what would happen in that situation, but since everyone seems to be discussing abortion… I don’t think there is anything wrong with it depending on the situation. I don’t think it’s right for a woman to have repeat abortions. As someone mentioned earlier it is in fact a form of birth control, but it should not be abused. People should not be careless and use abortion as a way of fixing mistakes that have already made in the past.
Someone also mentioned that you shouldn’t have sex if you are not ready for a baby, and while this seems reasonable when you are say, a young teenager, but I disagree in general. I am going to be 21 in July and I see tons of people my age having children and that is fine. I am happy to see people give back to the world, but that is not something I am willing to take on or something I even want to think about at this point in my life. It is ridiculous to think that I should not have sex with the man I love because I am not ready to have a child. Sex with someone you love is more than that, regardless of what it is intended for.
Now onto Booger. I’m going to talk in women’s perspective and just leave the man out of this. I’m a woman so that’s what I know and feel. By being a woman and having sex you should very much know that you will get pregnant and that you will be a single parent. You cannot count on a teenage boy to be a father and support a family. We could get into this whole parents aren’t teaching teens about sex and the circumstances conversation, but we won’t. Teens should really be able to gather that information from public school and the media. Television, books, etc. It isn’t brain surgery to know that if you play, you in essence will pay. Nothing is 100%. If you are not mature enough to know that then by all means masturbate and save us all from having to pick up the pieces in the end.
I felt the same way you did. I had sex before I was married. I had sex with my husband and I in fact knew that if I got pregnant it was not ideal because we were not married, but it would be ok because I loved him and he loved me. I know tons of women who thought the same thing and the guy split, but they raised that child because they loved it. It’s not a 50/50 street. If a woman gets prego she doesn’t get to go well if he’ll stay I’ll have it. That’s BULL you knew what you were getting yourself into.
I guess I’m never going to understand this whole I want to have sex because I’m love don’t tell me what god intended sex for because I’m not ready for a baby so let’s dispose of it.
I didn’t read all comments– so I hope that this was not stated yet. Women are able to have a choice for abortion. Sometimes the choice is made late, and the life that she carries is able to sustain life outside of the womb when she decides to abort. This is murder. If a murderer is convicted of killing a pregnant woman six months along, that person is responsible for two murders. For example, the Laci and Scott Peterson case. How can a woman have the choice to terminate a life that could sustain life outside the womb, and yet in the same token a person who muders a third trimester pregnant woman be held accountable. I personally would never terminate a baby, yet I feel that a woman(and a man should also have some say depending on circumstances) should be able to make a choice, but only in the first trimester(special conditions excluded). In the end, everyone should always be accountable for their decisions and accept all consequences. There should not be different rules for the same situation– murder is murder–whether you’re pregnant with viable life and terminate or take the life of a woman carry life. Why does the woman who aborts late get to go home and pretend nothing happened and the murderer is convicted to life in prison or death. Wake up!!!!
Ranee said: “Beyond that I think it was Ally that said Abortion is birth control. Abortion wasn’t *invented* as a medical proceedure for birth control purposes.”
This doesn’t change the fact that it IS a form of birth control. It controls birth. What people mean when they say “use abortion as birth control” is to use it as a “contraceptive” of sorts.
“The counseling process for abortions needs to be way more in depth in my opinion.”.
The problem is, who provides the counselling? There’s no way for any one organisation to be without bias when it comes to a topic like abortion, so how can one counseller be adequate?
Normally I stay out of stuff like this, so all I’ll say to share my opinion is that abortion is murder. Period.
Kim made an extremely valid and great point with the Laci Peterson case example.
Stephanie | 04.25.07 at 9:14pm | link to comment
Ranee – If I were raped I wouldn’t get an abortion either. But, I’ll pick an aborted baby over a child who is going to be mistreated because they weren’t wanted any day.
I’ve thought about that. That’s been a valid point that a teacher brought up to me in 7th grade. I’ve always had that in my mind. It’s sad. I wish there was some type of test to be a parent.
I’m not sure the policies in the united states, but in canada (to my knowledge) you aren’t allowed one if the baby is four months +, so there by there is not even a slightest chance of the baby being born alive.
I have had a baby at 25 weeks, thats less than 7 months pregnant and I have seen my baby move and live for the few weeks she did, (her death was unrelated to her early birth) If a baby that small can survive I believe the baby deserves a chance.
Abortion isnt birth control, and women may have the so called right to choose but where is the baby’s right to choose life??? who is it that irrisponsibly got pregnant in the first place??? Supporting abortion is just excusing a form of murder.
I am not judging any of you who supprt abortion, or have had one because it is not my place to do so but I dont like it or agree with it and that is my right to choose!
Janice | 04.25.07 at 10:56pm | link to comment
I have had a baby at 25 weeks, thats less than 7 months pregnant and I have seen my baby move and live for the few weeks she did, (her death was unrelated to her early birth) If a baby that small can survive I believe the baby deserves a chance.
Abortion isnt birth control, and women may have the so called right to choose but where is the baby’s right to choose life??? who is it that irrisponsibly got pregnant in the first place??? Supporting abortion is just excusing a form of murder.
I am not judging any of you who supprt abortion, or have had one because it is not my place to do so but I dont like it or agree with it and that is my right to choose!
Perfectly put. You’ve seen a baby move that is an early term birth. I sometimes wish that some of these mothers who abort would be drug into the nicu and have to watch babies so they can see that even before full term a life is a life.
And I’m not condemning anyone either. It’s my choice, my belief.
I still maintain as well that abortion is not birth control. My cousin had her fetus dead inside her at almost two months. She had to have a d&c to get it removed. Saying abortion is birth control because it’s controlling birth is like me saying that my cousin’s proceedure was not medical. ABORTION IS intended to be a medical proceedure to save lives not a choice for people who are too stupid to use birth control or deal with consequences.
Come on let’s face it in the end it’s all about being a mature responsible adult and owning up to your mistakes if you want to call it that. I’d never call a child a mistake myself. I look much better upon someone who does the unselfish thing and gives a child up for adoption rather than the selfish thing and aborts.
^ This is silly. Abortion is birth control – it’s not a contraceptive – but it is birth control. It fits the very definition. Abortion can *also* be used to save the lives of pregnant women, but at the same time, the procedure is still controlling the birth of the fetus. That doesn’t mean it’s not a medical procedure. They are not mutually exclusive.
If you don’t believe in abortion, then don’t have one. But allow other women to make that choice on their own. Let them face the consequences of their actions.
I’d be more understanding of those who say they care about aborted fetuses if there were actual care for the children already born. That’s not a stab at anyone in particular, just in general. Treat the born with more of a regard for their life, and perhaps women would be more likely to want to give birth.