Wikipedia’s definition of cyberstalking includes the following:
Cyberstalkers may research individuals to feed obsessions and curiosities that they possess
More commonly they will post defamatory or derogatory statements about their stalking target on web pages, message boards and in guest books designed to trigger a reaction or response from their victim
Once they get a reaction from the victim, they will typically attempt to track or follow the victim’s internet activity
TGO is guilty of all of the above, time and time again, as evidenced by his comments on his victims’ blogs, on other blogs, and on his own blog and message board.
What I find infuriating is how a lot of people are more focused on all of the things the victim did and didn’t do, what should have been said and shouldn’t have been said, etc. More pressure and dare I say blame is placed on the victim. Rather than focusing on all of the “wrongs” the victim has supposedly done, what about focusing on the harasser/stalker? Shouldn’t we be looking into quicker and tougher prosecution of these predators?
If a man were to come up to me on the street and say, “I’m going to meet up with you in a dark alley and rape you until you bleed”, he would be slapped in cuffs before he could blink. Yet this kind of behavior is perfectly acceptable on the internet. I speak from experience with this – some of my longtime blog readers may remember “Johnny”, who left me such threats in my blog comments, guestbook and email. I contacted my local police and his, yet nothing ever came of it. It was dismissed as being “just the internet”. After a year of leaving me threats of rape and other physical harm, Johnny finally got bored and moved on.
Becky brought up an interesting point: while the victims of harassment and stalking shouldn’t have their harasser and stalker’s behavior diminished for any reason, should they be held accountable for their own actions online, specifically in regards to giving out personal information?
This is where I’m wary of making a simple black/white determination. To me, laying blame at a blogger’s feet (“You shouldn’t have posted pictures of yourself” or “You shouldn’t have mentioned what city you live in” or “You shouldn’t list your last name in your domain’s whois information!”) almost draws a parallel to laying blame at a rape victim’s feet (“You shouldn’t have worn a cleavage-showing top” or “You shouldn’t have gone to the bar” or “You shouldn’t be outside after dark”).
What are your thoughts?
Agreed.
IMO, it shouldn’t matter if someone shares pictures online… or state what city they’re in.. that does not excuse the behavior of a “stalker”… that does not give an ok for harassment or lies.. that does not give anyone the right to do horrible things to people or write/say/post horrible things about people. Again, IMO.
Just because “we” share things about our life (some in more detail than others), just because “we” share photos from time to time.. should not give a person the right to use that material to harass or wrongly accuse.
According to the State of Arizona, he is very much a cyberstalker:
http://www.haltabuse.org/resources/laws/arizona.shtml
13-2921. Harassment; classification; definition
1. A person commits harassment if, with intent to harass or with knowledge that the person is harassing another person, the person:
1. Anonymously or otherwise communicates or causes a communication with another person by verbal, electronic, mechanical, telegraphic, telephonic or written means in a manner that harasses.
2. Continues to follow another person in or about a public place for no legitimate purpose after being asked to desist.
3. Repeatedly commits an act or acts that harass another person.
4. Surveils or causes another person to surveil a person for no legitimate purpose.
5. On more than one occasion makes a false report to a law enforcement, credit or social service agency.
6. Interferes with the delivery of any public or regulated utility to a person.
I don’t think it’s the same as laying blame on the person. I don’t think telling a woman she shouldn’t've gone to a bar at midnight by herself wearing trashy clothes is the same as blaming her, though- that is telling her that she should exercise some personal responsibility. People are VERY slack in personal responsibility. Just because we SHOULD have the RIGHT to go out at midnight and walk along the street to the 24 hour market all alone doesn’t mean we actually have the luxury of doing it and knowing we will return home safely. We have to weigh risks and rewards.
I’m an adult, but when I go on a date I contact someone or leave information behind about who I’m going to be with, where we’ll be, from when to when, what their address is, what their telephone number is. This is exercising a measure of personal responsibility. I understand that just because I trust someone doesn’t mean they deserve it. If something goes wrong, if I say I’ll be home at 11 and I’m not home at 1 and no one has heard from me they know who I was last with, from when to when, where etc.
TGO is an idiot and is seriously disturbed. He hates everyone except himself and people that suck his virtual dick (although I doubt he has much of one).
He hates Canadians.
He hates Asians.
He hates Mexicans.
He hates homosexuals (justifies this by using the bible, although he isn’t Christian…).
He hates black people.
He hates a majority of women.
He enjoys children a little too much.
He’s a stalker.
He hates middle-easterners (remember his Sanjaya blog?)
He is just so full of hate and problems it is ridiculous.
Oops, I had two thoughts going on at once. The Middle Eastern comment I made merged with my thought on Indians.
This guy is just a troll down to the very last meaning of the word.
What Whitney just said there I’m sure isn’t true. You would say that from looking at what he says, but I’d guarantee that he doesn’t actually hate any of those people/groups.
What he is is simply trying to get a reaction by saying whatever he can to try to rile people up as much as possible.
Honestly, I feel that the more he is discussed openly like this the more he’s creaming his pants in joy of the chaos he’s creating.
That’s all he wants is a rise, to mess with people and see them get upset. The best thing, of course, is to just completely ignore him. Beyond that, I think his threats SHOULD be taken seriously and he should have legal repercussions for them.
Dan; I agree with you. I think he just enjoys the attention and shock value of it all. That certainly does not ok anything he does/says at all but the more attention he gets from all of this, the more it’ll make him want to continue.
Like with celebrities… Bad publicity is good publicity…
Damn your husband is a genius, Jenn. Took the words right off my fingers.
Also, you just have to take precautions when you do certain things, the world isn’t a utopia.
In my opinion, If you own a personal blog and enjoy blogging about your life, wouldn’t keeping things like your name, age, location, job, pictures, friends, childrens names .. etc.. Wouldn’t keeping these things in your blog/site make the concpet of a “personal blog/site” moot?
I mean, I’m not going to create a personal site if i’m changing my name to Geena, say that I live in the UK and don’t mention anything worthwhile that happens in my life on my blog. It wouldn’t be entertaining OR worth it for me to be blogging. I enjoy blogging about my life, and so do so many people.
Besides, no jury would agree with the statement “well she shouldn’t have been wearing a low cut top and mini skirt” from a rapist. Saying that we shouldn’t post pictures/names on OUR /PERSONAL/ blogs is the same thing.
Sure, there are some things you probably shouldn’t post (exact location, full name, etcetcetc…) online, unless its in a secure environment, but still… In most cases, generalities (e.g. I live in Auckland, my name is Sarah, etc…) don’t lead to problems. There’s always one though (like TGO) that takes it that one step too far.
Like Dan said, TGO probably loves this attention. Hopefully when the shit dies down and people stop caring about him he’ll get the drift.
It’s sad that bloggers have to censor themself because there are morons like him on the loose. It should not be neccesary, but unfortunatly it is. I don’t blame the blogger for sharing too much information, but I don’t think it’s a smart thing to do either. By now we should be aware of the possible concequences; there are always going to be nutcases who cross the line.
I agree.
And posting photos online doesnt mean they are fair game for anyone to use.. Common sense.
its just sad how things like this get to go on on the internet yet in real life… none of it would be tolerated.
Jenn I wonder if someone just said that to you if the police would take it seriously? I’ve lost all faith in them. When they have it right in front of them printed out with ip traces and everything and they still don’t do anything then why would I think they would believe real live people standing in front of them? I’m not talking about TGO I’m just talking in general.
I keep all information about myself kept down to a minimal. I wouldn’t want anyone to get ahold of anything about me. I used to be really open about that kind of thing until someone stole a photo of me and put it on their website and said I was the “ugliest” woman alive. This was back when Geocities was popular and I contacted Geocities and they removed the website.
And I do believe (for myself) that I would dress appropriately. This came about because when I was 18, I dated a guy for a few weeks. I was young and full of myself. The night he grabbed me by my shirt collar and told me I was nothing more than a fuck to him really upset me. I dumped him and soon moved away (for other reasons). Later on, this same young man pinned a girl at work in the ladies room and raped her. That could have been me. I haven’t been the same since. I will wear low cut shirts (but only with a tank or something underneath) I don’t wear skirts and I carry pepper spray in my purse. I don’t want to give anyone an image of what’s underneath. But, I don’t feel that way for anyone else. People can dress as they please.
I still stick with my original statement. Its a shame that this happenes.
I agree that TGo is responsible for TGo’s actions and while he can’t be immediately responsible for the actions that happen on his site, he should correct any harassing posts when he gets around to seeing them (Who baby sits their site 24/7?). But he does what he does to shock people. And the good thing that you all might not be seeing here is you can see where he does it. Imagine TGo not having a site that you could all see. Imagine TGo having your personal photos on a site where you couldn’t complain about it or see it? The solution here is simple. Stop going to his site. Stop commenting to him. Stop blogging about him. It’s what that woman from wiredsafety.org said on GMA: “The easiest thing to do is to turn around and attack your stalker or harasser and that’s exactly what they want.”
I think it’s up to the individual blog owner on whether they want to post certain things/photos that could tip trolls off on their whereabouts.
Years ago, on Livejournal & Bloopdiary there was this crazy girl Renee who stole many of my photos, as well as photos of other moms & kids to create different online identities & claim them as her own.
I guess after that I was just more careful about what I allowed to be “public” on the web. While I’m not afraid of anyone who would show up at my home (I have the means to protecting myself & my children), I’m not going to blatantly put everything out on the web, either ;)
Common sense goes far on the internet.
I don’t believe you can put all the “blame” on the blogger but everyone needs to consider the consequenses putting out personal information might have.
Uh- that should be *protect (squirmy baby!).
I scensor my blog to a certain amount.
* Not posting any information about where I work (children, pictures, or location no matter how insignificant) or where I live.
* I have my website whois information private on both domains.
* I hardly post pictures and dont list names of those in my pictures.
* I never blog about “online drama”
I use alot of common sense while online.
While growing up I learned to stop bullies simply by ignoring them. They wanted to see my reaction when they called me names, and pushed me around. If I just kept on walking that made them angry at first, then soon they were not even bothering me on my walk home from school anymore. I had won.
I belive that if we all stop blogging and visiting the sites of those who “cause trouble/”harass”, it will eventually go away and stop! All we have to do is ignore the negative and encourage the positive.
I agree. I have been a victim of an online stalker and IT IS REAL! Something needs to be done so the authorities start taking the threats seriously. I hope it doesnt take someone to die before laws are created against cyber stalking. In fact, I’m sure there have been cases where women have been murdered by online stalkers. The only thing we can do is be careful what we post. Be sure to make your domain information private, not post street signs, house numbers of where we live etc. There are A LOT of psychos online!
The problem is that a blog IS personal. Sometimes in certain cases, people try to run businesses online exposing their addresses. And in certain instances, whois can link someone’s address or phone number.
The problem isn’t how much someone decides to “reveal” about themselves.
The problem is the type of person who takes advantage of another person’s life with malicious intent. If we were all respectable and mature and confident in ourselves we wouldn’t need to hurt others.
I don’t think any fingers should be pointed at anyone other than the stalker. An online stalker should be treated no differently than a normal one. Why is it okay to do over the internet, when the very same person could turn around and stalk the person who lives across the street? Why is it assumed that just because said person stalks over the internet, he won’t do it to someone in real life?
I think it should be common sense that a female shouldn’t dress trashy if she is alone at a bar etc, etc, but if something were to happen I think it is ridiculous to try and say that it is her fault for dressing a certain way or doing a certain thing. People in this day and age are fucking psychotic and by no means should a victim of harassment be to blame in any case.
The world is a really dark scary place, and quite frankly it’s getting on my nerves.
This is interesting – there was just a huge thing here in Norway about how every other man (here) thinks that women who flirt openly are the ones responsible if they get raped or otherwise sexually assaulted.
Scary, isn’t it? It is a sad world indeed where a girl can’t wear what clothes she’d like without risking being raped. It all just really scares me.
Alex – But the women who have been victims of this self-deluded stalker haven’t exposed all aspects of their lives. The stalker went to lengths to get more information that wasn’t made availiable to continue to terrorize.
I’m not saying that everyone is respectible, mature and confident, but it goes to show you who isn’t. The perpetrators.
I’m just going to copy my comment I left on your LJ -
… I can tell you that if the blogger/victim responds to anything that the person says (blogging about it, emailing them, etc) the law technically can’t do anything about it because that’s the blogger/victim trying to solve things themselves, instead of letting the law handle it like it’s supposed to be done.
So the one thing the victim shouldn’t do is respond to the harassment other than contacting authorities.
No, some people won’t take it seriously – but you can insist on a file being started to keep things in, and there is always SOMEONE that is willing to handle cases like these – family services, etc.
Dan took the words out of my mouth. Smart AND makes cute babies…too bad he’s taken ;)
So Jenn. I was talking to my BF tonight. Somehow, TGO got his MSN, started talking to him, and we all went into a conversation. I wasn’t surprised to see him say this, and to my face. lol.
TGO says:
yeah i’ll hack that ugly hoe
TGO says:
but if she cuts her throat
TGO says:
i wont
TGO says:
if she dies
TGO says:
i’ll shut down my site
TGO says:
hows that for deals
It’s funny how he claims he’s a hacker now. lol.
;) This shit just keeps boiling. I honestly don’t think I laughed so hard in my life. I’m definitely saving these logs.
^ Ok.. that is just disturbing.
I don’t think any of the blame should be laid at the blogger’s feet at all. Almost everyone posts pictures of themselves, you can’t purchase a domain name without giving your last name unless you pay the extra to have a private registration so no one can see the WHOIS info, etc. It’s exactly like saying that the rape victim shouldn’t have done this or that.
Now I’ve heard to call the cops immediately and don’t say anything back, but I’ve also seen where the cops would not do anything until the victim made some sort of attempt to stop the stalker themselves. Personally, I think the police don’t take internet stalking as seriously as they should in the first place.
Somehow that behavior does not surprise me.
But it’s okay. More rope to hang himself with. ;)
It’s the harrassers fault, plain and simple. People need to realize that this so called “man” (if he really is one) is just trying to get people riled up about stupid crap. He feeds on people’s reactions. He’s exactly like my ex. My ex would call me and say absolutely horrible stuff to me, and I would just hang up on him or laugh at him..which pissed him off even more, but I didn’t let him get to me! He was looking for a certain reaction from me and I wouldn’t give it to him. You all just need to show TGO that he’s definately no God (hell I had no clue who the hell he was until the post) and that’s he’s just a scared little boy with nothing better to do.
I remember when I was first on the internet oh so many years ago. (14+) I wanted to start an online “stalking/harassing/pedophile” task force and possibly pair up with local police departments (I was a smart 10 year old!) As I had seen how of age but looked younger looking people bought liquor and smokes who worked with the police in busting stores who broke the law, I wanted to start an internet version. I sort of wish I had. Though there is nothing stoping any of you from doing that in your own community.
Though I am suprised that local police departments are doing nothing about it, not even allowing you to open up a harassment file, or even just a file in general to keep your information and such together. If I can open up a police file over simply losing something, then I dont see why you cant start gathering evidence against someone to possibly be able to use at another date when more resources are available, or when laws change and are more in the victims favor.
About my last comment.
The snippet (conversation log) posted in the last comment was false.
As hard as it may be to believe, that wasn’t actually TGO I was talking to — it was an intruder (an individual “posing” as him).
It wasn’t until later, when I realized this. After hearing some facts, the story has all come together. You may look at TGO’s website, and ponder, “Oh, this must be bullshit, he had to have done it.“. Even I didn’t believe so at first. But, there’s an idiot out there, who is most likely to “pose” as somebody else, just to make a person look worse then they are. What you see on TV is one thing, but when an individual “purposely” tries put the troubled mouse in the trap, or in other hands, poses as an individual, attempting to get them in even more bullshit (despite their innocence, or being guilty), then you have a problem.
Once again, my deepest apologies for posting that comment above before, and getting everyone worked up.
I’m still putting all the facts together, and trying to come up with the culprit (who this person was, posing, and I already have a general idea, but I’m not jumping to conclusions again), I’ll be back here to post again.
I wish you all the best.
Thank you for the time.
Brandy,
I think a lot of people pose as TGO. Just because he is the one with the website he is the one who gets all the credit. I’m not saying you are on the web and you can pinpoint his ip that it’s not him, because even he will admit it is him. BUT a while ago Klumsi had told him he was nothing special because there are hundreds of TGO’s out there. Like actually using the same name. At the same time he could be using a different ip in different situations to not get the blame.
My problem with all of this is that if it’s a crime and you can pinpoint who the person is then they will get in some type of trouble. If they can lure men into pedophile situations and arrest them when sometimes it’s entrapment then yeah, I think something can be done if someone is honestly and truly harassing you on the net and you aren’t taking part in a wahhh he said she said rebut of the whole thing.
OH what I honestly wanted to say was that the conversation you posted would have made much more sense if the other part was put in there. For all we know your bf baited the person to say those things.
One more thing I wanted to point out is that I also think it is really stupid to be having conversations or even acknowledge said harassers.